Trying not to throw things at the TV when Franklin Graham comes on

I loathe Franklin Graham. He's president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and of a nonprofit Samaritan's Purse. He sews hate. Some of the hateful statements he's made:

• In March 2011, Graham said the 2011 earthquake and tsunami in Japan "maybe" the second coming and Armageddon - talk that was meant to get more converts (and donors) to his ministry. BTW - we're still here.
   
• Graham refers to homosexuality as "an abomination" and compared "conversion therapy" to Conversion to Christianity. If you don't know, conversion therapy is the pseudoscientific and horrific practice of trying to change an individual's sexual orientation from homosexual or bisexual to heterosexual. There is no reliable evidence that sexual orientation can be changed and medical institutions warn that conversion therapy practices are ineffective and potentially harmful.
   
• Graham supported North Carolina Amendment 1 prohibiting same-sex marriage and all domestic partnerships.
   
• Graham defended Russian President Vladimir Putin's "gay propaganda" law and has praised his leadership for "protecting children from any homosexual agenda or propaganda.
   
• He's made horrific anti-Islamic remarks, criticizing Islam for many of the same beliefs that are stated in the Bible.
   
• He repeatedly tried to assert that President Barack Obama, a Christian, was, in fact, a Muslim and supported terrorism.
   
• In November 2016, Graham told The Washington Post that God had played a role in Donald Trump's election as U.S. president, saying: "I could sense going across the country that God was going to do something this year. And I believe that at this election, God showed up." Since the election, Graham has "become known, above all, as the most vociferous evangelical ally" of Trump. 

Now Franklin Graham is on TV a lot, via a commercial, telling people that all they have to do is invite Jesus into their lives and they won't be afraid anymore of COVID19. You see, Graham isn't allowed to hold his big money-making rallies anymore, because people would DIE of this virus as a result, so he's got to find a new way to get followers and their money. That's why he's doing these commercials, and his message doesn't stop at just the prayer he thinks you should say: he also says you should, of course, call HIS prayer line and pray with one of HIS employees. And they will, of course, get your name and address and phone number, and then you can start being asked for financial donations to sustain his "ministry."

If these TV commercials weren't really all about Franklin Graham and him getting your money, he'd stop with that encouragement for you to pray - end commercial! But he wants to make certain you call that number, so he can get your info.

But even if he had stopped at just the prayer, I would have written a blog of anger, because all I can think of is all those many, many people who are going to pray that prayer, yet again, and think, okay, this time, maybe THIS time, Jesus is finally going to reveal himself to me and I'm going to experience all these things these preachers and believers keep assuring me is going to happen. I've just got to have FAITH! Maybe this time, my desperation and anxiety, at the very least will be addressed - and maybe THIS time, it will mean my husband or parents or whoever will stop abusing me, or my child will not have this chronic condition that is bankrupting our finances and draining me in every way, and on and on.

And they are going to pray that prayer, yet again, and it's not going to work, it's not going to help, and they are going to feel, yet again, like Jesus doesn't like them, that there's something wrong with them that they don't feel this think that Franklin Graham says he feels and you will too.

I am here to tell you that there is nothing wrong with you. It is exhausting to keep waiting for Jesus to show up and do what Franklin Graham promises - but you can stop that exhaustion and desperation by quitting your wait for a magical, invisible, and mythical being to help you. Instead, reboot with these two thoughts:

• other people have survived what you are struggling with, and that means you can too.
   
• no one person can fix this for you, but you will need help, and there IS help.
   
• this is a marathon, not a sprint, and your problems won't be addressed in a day, or a week, or a month, or even several weeks, and not be doing one simple thing, BUT there are absolutely things you can do, there are absolutely things you can control, and exercising that control, even in little things, but on an ongoing basis, will make things at least more survivable, and maybe even better. 

Those three points have helped me more than Jesus ever has.

Identify exactly what it is you need to make things in your life at least survivable, if not tolerable, and then pursue what you need to do to get exactly what you need. It could be:

• Accepting that you cannot change this quickly, and accepting that you will need to change your strategies at least a few times.
   
• Leaving the abusive home you are in - a domestic violence shelter can help you (but you will probably be put into a hotel).
   
• Selling whatever you can to get cash.
   
• Looking into whatever you can possibly do for cash that is safe and ethical: dog walking (a lot of home-bound people are desperate for this service right now, and there are ways to do it safely even in this age of COVID19), grocery shopping for someone else, simple yard work, etc.
   
• Scanning and posting images/screen captures of your medical and house/apartment bills on Flickr, with your address, social security number and account number edited out, and then contacting every elected official that serves you, as well as local press, and saying, "How am I supposed to pay all this now?" Be respectful but relentless in your communications.
   
• Exploring bankruptcy.
   
• Finding online and print resources that relate to what you are going through - postpartum depression, abuse by a married partner, abuse by an unmarried partner, elder abuse, child abuse, bankruptcy, a chronic health condition - and read them, don't just scan them. Be careful of pseudoscience sites or any sites trying to sell you something.
   
• Getting therapy - and if your insurance doesn't cover it, call your county health department and ask them where you should get it.
   
• Making a list of every nonprofit in your area that might be able to help somehow and contacting them.  

If you have time to watch TV or be on Facebook, then you have time to exercise. No matter how ridiculous you think it makes you look and no matter how useless it may feel, exercise every day, even if it's just walking back and forth on your block, or doing situps in your bedroom. If you have a condition that doesn't let you do situps, then work on your arms - cans of soup can be good for arm workouts. What exercise does is cause you to breathe more deeply, which helps reduce anxiety.

Set a timer for being on social media and turn it OFF when your timer is up, until tomorrow. Things to do instead of social media:

• Watch a movie or documentary, without using your phone in any way at the same time. Watch it the way you should in a theater, with a darkened room and quiet.
   
• Read a book. Any book. Take as many days or weeks you need to finish it. Then start another.
   
• While you clean your living space, listen to music or an audiobook or podcast.
   
• Teach yourself solitaire and play with real cards, not online cards. Play it while you listen to music or a podcast.
   
• Write. It can be a journal. It can be fanfiction. It can be a business plan for the business or nonprofit you would love to start. It could be what your speech would be if you were being inaugurated as President. 

The less time you spend on social media and, instead, engage in these simple activities, the better you will feel. And these activities not only help you get through dark thoughts, they also might prompt you to come up with an action plan that could help you in the long term.

And keep looking for hope.

God hates your feelings. And your reason.

I grew up in churches where obedience to God was emphasized, but compassion and charity was not. What was most important, the preachers and Sunday school teachers said, was doing what God said, as directed through the Bible, and that had little to do with being kind to people. After all, they would tell me, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" doesn't mean be kind - it means to be Biblical. In other words, you should want people to tell you that you are going to hell unless you repent - it's what's BEST for you!

That means that the story of the fishes and loaves wasn't about pooling our resources so that we can care for each other; it was about Jesus being divine, as shown through his performance of a miracle. The story of the good Samaritan was just a skit for Vacation Bible School - I'm not sure I ever heard it talked about from the pulpit. Every sermon I remember was about just one thing: accept Christ as your savior, and you get everlasting life. Accepting Jesus was more important than any behavior. or feeling. The churches I attended as a child held no canned food drives, built no homes for the homeless, collected no money for people without healthcare insurance. Charity was never discussed in my family home, beyond helping family members that were ill. What was oh-so-much-more important was prayer and having the capacity to witness for Jesus to neighbors and co-workers and friends.

I'm catching up on reading through a stack of New Yorker magazines, and am just now reading about how Megan Phelps-Roper turned against her church - the Westboro Baptist Church. The article notes:

Church members disdained human feelings as something that people worshipped instead of the Bible. They even had a sign: “GOD HATES YOUR FEELINGS.” They disregarded people’s feelings in order to break their idols.

It was like something clicked in my head - I remember that message from my youth, though it was said in more quiet, firm tones, not screaming, and not quite so explicitly: we are sinful, and feelings are a product of that sinful nature - only obedience can save us. If we're comfortable and happy, then we're not true Christians!

I hear my Christian friends lament that the Westboro Baptist Church aren't really Christians, because members have such hateful messages and seek to make people feel awful at funerals for loved ones, but the reality is that, based on a literalist view of the English-language Bible (which is, of course, the language Jesus spoke), they have a doctrinal basis for their hate.

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:26

Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;
Matthew 10:37

Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Revelation 12:11

In their view, being a Christian doesn't make you happy, doesn't give you peace, doesn't make you feel better - if those things happen, you are actually worshipping an idol - your heart - not following the Bible. Being a Christian should make you uncomfortable or happy or peaceful. If you aren't hated for being a Christian, you aren't really a Christian!

You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:22

An unjust man is abominable to the righteous, And he who is upright in the way is abominable to the wicked.
Proverbs 29:27

Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at His word: "Your brothers who hate you, who exclude you for My name's sake, Have said, 'Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy.' But they will be put to shame.
Isaiah 66:5

Then will they hand you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name.
Matthew 24:9

If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.
John 15:19

And you will be hated by everyone because of My name.
Luke 21:17

By your patient endurance, you will gain your souls.
Luke 21:19

And that's just some of the Biblical fuel that makes the members of the Westboro Baptist Church do what they do. Are they not doing exactly what the Bible tells them?

Indeed, it was my feelings of compassion and sympathy and wonder, and my reason, that turned me away from Christianity and all other religions. It was reading the Bible, and many of the verses I've just quoted, that made me decide to delve deeper into the origins of the Bible, to read, read, and read some more, and ultimately, all that knowledge helped me to embrace my atheism instead of trying desperately to cure it. And I've been so much happier as a result, so much more whole, so much more peaceful, so much more connected to the world and my fellow humans - which, of course, goes against what the Bible teaches. My morality comes from balancing my feelings and my reason, from believing that all people have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, because that makes sense, that benefits everyone, that makes the entire world a better place to live for everyone - including me. I don't rob or kill people, or steal, not because of the state's laws, and not because of the Bible, but because I know it will hurt people, and I don't like hurting people. By contrast, helping others feels good, sometimes in a selfish way, sometimes in a healing way for myself - I am healed through kindness to others. Admittedly, there are a few atheists that are nihilists, and therefore, rejecting God means rejecting morality, but most atheists are moral atheists, as university philosophy professor Louise M. Antony notes: "we find moral value to be immanent in the natural world, arising from the vulnerabilities of sentient beings and from the capacities of rational beings to recognize and to respond to those vulnerabilities and capacities in others." We moral atheists are therefore puzzled by Christians and other people of faith who say morality comes from God. As Antony asks, "To say that morality depends on the existence of God is to say that none of these specific moral judgments is true unless God exists. That seems to me to be a remarkable claim. If God turned out not to exist — then slavery would be O.K.? There’d be nothing wrong with torture? The pain of another human being would mean nothing?" It's no wonder that atheists are motivated more by compassion that people of faith.

It's not easy to live life without dogma. My morality and values are challenged, and I must do a lot of thinking, a lot of exploring, to come to terms with these challenges. My feelings are sometimes in conflict with my reasoning, with logic, and I can't just read some scripture and get an absolute answer - I have to research and consider what I'm learning. I often feel like a lawyer looking for past judicial rulings to make a case. If you think that sounds so much harder than following a religion, consider this from psychologist Dr. Darrel Ray: "If these teachings were simple and clear, then there would not be 38,000 different denominations and branches of Christianity all saying different things."

My morality tells me that the members of the Westboro Baptist Church are engaged in abhorrent behaviors. My morality tells me that these people are despicable. But Christians, the scripture you say you believe in agrees with their actions.

warning for religious folks: demand more of humans representing your god

I’m looking at the web site of a church that many of my friends are joining. It's a new church, just a few years old. Its web site is one of the slickest I’ve ever seen. It’s gorgeous - there's no way this was designed by just a helpful congregation member. This is a professionally-designed web site. 

I’m deeply suspicious of this church, both because of their quick rise in numbers and because of the oh-so-slick web site that lacks of information about who is behind this institution. There are:

• no names of pastors/leaders or other staff listed
• no biographies of pastors/leaders or other staff, including where the leaders studied theology, where else they have lived, what other religious communities they have lead, etc. 
• no info about how money they raise for the church, temple, mosque, community is used (what percentage goes to property rent/mortgage/upkeep? to salaries? to cover costs incurred by volunteers/to support volunteers? to charities, nonprofits or overseas missions? to congregants in need?)

How are you supposed to know if this organization is fiscally responsible? And how are you supposed to know if the people leading this religious community:

• have the credentials to lead a religious community?
• have the knowledge to lead a religious community?
• haven’t been convicted or arrested, or involved in any scandal elsewhere?

I wonder what would happen if someone went to the leadership of this church and asked for this information to be posted publicly… maybe someone has? It would be interesting to see if the church embraced the idea and posted the info, or avoided doing it - and has been avoiding doing it. I find it odd that the site is otherwise SO well-designed.

Even if the pastors were listed, along with their credentials, I'd do some more digging, as I’ve looked at other web sites of churches and mosques, and often, the name of institute where someone says they studied theology cannot be found on a web search, or the institute has no accreditation by a recognized body. 

Surely you would want appropriate credentials of your accountant, teachers at your kids' school, the person that designed your in-ground pool, etc. Why not those that are telling you how to live?

Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Jains, whatever: do you really want to believe that transparency isn’t necessary for churches, mosques, temples and other religious communities? Do you think your magical, invisible friend that won’t protect children from being raped will, however, protect the people going to your church/mosque/temple/whatever and you don’t need to do a little digging into these people that are telling you how to live, what to believe, and to give them money?

A quote from Dan Savage

I simply don't know how any reasonable person can look at all world religions, living and dead, and come to the conclusion that one particular tribe or prophet or science-fiction writer got it right and every other tribe, prophet, and science-fiction writer got it wrong.

Dan Savage, in his Nov. 7, 2012 Savage Love column.

Quit trying to convert me!

What people say to try to convert me to their religion.		My answer.
If you would read the Bible/Koran/whatever, you would see the light and come to God.		I've read the Bible - twice from cover-to-cover, and different parts and chapters over many years, from the time I could read until - well, now. I've also read the Koran, as well as various Haddith. I've even read some of the Book of Mormon. And... I'm still an Atheist. In fact, the more I've read the Bible or the Koran, the more obvious it is to me that religion is all superstition and, quite often, bigotry and hatred. No thank you!
If you would pray and open your heart to Jesus/God, you would see the light and come to God.		I prayed every day, probably twice a day, up until I was about 13. I felt nothing, my situation was never altered, but I kept doing it, because that's what everyone kept saying to do, and I was desperate for things to improve in my life. I would stand there in various church services and silently say, "Okay, Jesus! I'm ready! Come on down! I'm ready!" And nothing would happen. NOTHING. After I became a teen, I would pray just every now and again, hoping that maybe it would finally work and I'd feel the Magic Warm Feeling everyone said I would. Nothing happened. Once I stopped praying and, instead, started thinking strategically about how to address this or that problem, stopped looking for God and started looking and creating solutions, life became a LOT more manageable - even JOYFUL, something it never had been before.
Christianity / Islam / Whatever is the one, true religion.		That's what you all say! Do you realize you all use exactly the same rhetoric to tout your religion's legitimacy? Everything I've heard about current religions could be said of cults of Zeus!
I just KNOW that Christianity / Islam / Whatever is the right religion, and I just KNOW that God exists - I can just feel it!		Well, goody for you. Gut feelings are fascinating - and often wrong. I never had a gut feeling that God existed, FYI, so that made it a lot easier to stop the pursuit of a magical, invisible friend.
It's been God that's gotten me through the worst times of my life. He could do that for you, too, if you would just believe.		Really - he got you through knee surgery or that divorce or the death of your loved one, but to that 10 year old girl getting raped in Congo and begging for his help, he says, "Too bad!"? Give me a frakin' break.
Without God, you will have no moral compass.		Without God, I've still got values, ethics, a strong, passionate sense of what's right and wrong.
Without God, you will never know real joy or passion.		That statement, or something like it, is one that people like John Shore and Oprah Winfrey repeat again and again. The REALITY is that I've known FAR more joy once I accepted my Atheism than I did when I tried to be a Christian. The joy I've been able to access, joy that I never felt when I was trying to be a believer, cannot be denied, even by you.
What will you do when Jesus comes back to Earth and Final Judgement happens? (FYI, both Christians and Muslims believe in this)		That's like asking me what I will do when the aliens land their space ship on the Mall in Washington, D.C. Or what I will do when the zombies rise and attack. It's NOT going to happen! How can I have an answer to a situation that isn't going to happen?
You know I'm right. You just won't accept it.		Sigh... the arrogance of this statement drives me more crazy than any of the others. There's no way to answer that kind of blind self-righteousness.
Who created the Universe? It had to start - it had to be created. There's only one possible answer: God!		Who created God? He had to start - he had to be created. There's only one possible answer: Man!
God has to exist - how will we answer the question "Why are we here" without God?		When you have an answer about why he kills millions of people, and permanently injures and tortures millions more, in endless numbers of natural disasters - and allows men to kill and torture millions more - let me know.
You need to quit questioning. Just accept.		Bite me.

My responses sometimes get the statements to me to stop, sometimes not. I hope that they help some of my fellow Atheists out there respond to the ongoing efforts to convert them to whatever religion is being promoted. 

These efforts to convert you can be exhausting and insulting. They can leave you feeling attacked and drained. So when you need to recover from this nonsense thrown at you, I recommend 10 minutes at least on the I Fucking Love Science Facebook page. And wine. 

North Carolina votes for... what?

Yesterday, North Carolina voted to ban not only gay marriage, but all legal civil unions, including those of straight couples.

This does not strengthen marriage in North Carolina. No straight, religious, married couple in North Carolina is now going to be married longer, and have a more fulfilling, happy marriage, because of this vote. That's absolutely irrefutable.

Here's what this amendment does do:

• If a gay person is admitted to a hospital and the hospital decides only family can visit that person, his or her same-sex partner cannot visit. It doesn't matter if that couple (yes, they can still be called a couple) has spent thousands of dollars and oh-so-many hours to have legal paperwork that says they will have this right if such a scenario presents itself. That paperwork is null and void in North Carolina.
• If a gay person dies, the parents, siblings or children of that person - who that person may not have talked to in years - will have all rights regarding the funeral and burial. Regardless of any relationship that person may have with someone of the same sex, even a 20-year-old partnership, that partner can legally be excluded, entirely, from the planning - even from attending. It doesn't matter if that couple has spent thousands of dollars and oh-so-many hours to have legal paperwork that says they will have this right if such a scenario presents itself. That paperwork is null and void in North Carolina.
• If a gay person gets a job that gives health insurance coverage to a spouse, his or her same-sex partner cannot get that coverage, under any circumstances. 

How does any of that make straight marriage stronger? It doesn't! In fact, straight Christians will continue to sometimes (often?) have relationship and sexual problems, will continue to sometimes (often?) have adulterous affairs, and often get divorced. This amendment does NADA to address those things.

By contrast, without this amendment - if you, North Carolina, allowed gay marriage - here's what would never, ever change:

• If your church does not recognized gay marriage, it would still not recognize gay marriage. Just as a Baptist church is under no obligation to allow Muslim weddings, just as a Catholic church could refuse to marry to non-Catholics, your church would get to continue to refuse to recognize gay marriage. You can refuse to perform such ceremonies, you can ask such people to leave your grounds. That doesn't change no matter how marriage is defined.
• You get to continue to be disgusted by gay marriage, just as I'm disgusted by child marriage, a marriage where there is more than a 30 year age difference between the partners, or religious marriages that require women to stay in abusive relationships. You get to continue to speak out about how you think it's awful, stand up and leave the room in a huff when someone says they support it, ignore people engaged in it, etc.
• You get to continue to refuse to attend any wedding among any two people you don't think should get married, gay or straight.
• Straight people like Kim Kardashian and Brittney Spears will get married for just a few hours/days.
• Gay people would continue to live together, love each other, even hold hands in public.  

So what good did this amendment do you, straight married religious couples of North Carolina?

None. Zilch. Nada.

Consider this, voters of North Carolina: most of you are Christians. But you aren't the same kinds of Christians. In fact, some of you would say that some others of you are NOT Christians. I've heard Church of Christ people say no one else is Christian but them, I've heard Catholics say no one else is a Christian but them, I've heard Baptists say that neither Catholics nor Mormons are Christians, and on and on and on. You people loooove to debate who is and isn't a Christian. You would have gotten to do the same thing regarding gay people had you NOT passed this amendment: you would have gotten to continue to say, "I believe marriage is between one man and one woman and, therefore, those guys over there aren't really married." You would get to continue to believe that, with all your heart. But if you are an intensive care unit nurse, you would have had to keep that belief to yourself when a man came to your unit to see his husband - would that REALLY have been so hard? Are you going to feel better telling that man, "No! You cannot see him! Ha ha!" Is that really what Jesus would do?

Why should your religion - which I do not believe in, by the way - get to determine which loving, adult, consenting couples get to get married? You say marriage is something that is sanctified by God and was created for the purpose of having children - yet here I am, an Atheist who is not having babies, and I was allowed to marry. Are you going to try to take away my marriage now?

This was a vote that was driven entirely - ENTIRELY - by religious people, particularly and especially Christians. And it represents so much of why we Atheists find you just as reprehensible as you find The Gays.

You think the Koran is violent? Have you read the Bible?!

I was raised in a Christian household, in a Christian community, in the Bible Belt. The faction of choice, for the most part: General Baptist, though there was a lot of Methodist meeting attendance also going on. That means there were at least weekly Bible readings going on (often more). I knew a lot of the bible by my teen years, but I decided reading excerpts at least twice a week wasn't enough to really understand it, and so I went through the whole enchilada, cover-to-cover. And as I read, I realized, more and more, that I didn't believe. Reading the Bible over several weeks, cover-to-cover, helped me come to terms with my disbelief -- which I'd always had but would never admit to. I was officially an un-believer shortly after that, per a phone call from a church youth leader asking me to come to church camp, and my saying, for the first time out loud (but not the last), that I am not a Christian.

For various reasons, about 20 years later, I decided to do it again: read the Bible cover-to-cover. I needed a refresher course to keep me sharp for comments like, "Jesus said homosexuality is a sin" (he never did, actually). I remembered that the Bible had made me uncomfortable, even angry, as a teen, for some of its assertions, but as an adult, I was absolutely flabbergasted at how incredibly violent and woman-hating the text is, over and over again. I had remembered the hate of the Bible from the first time around, here and there, but the text is permeated with it, and the violence -- wow. I hadn't remembered that from the first time around. Horrific. And nothing I wanted any part of!

(I have to admit that, on this second reading, I gave up at Revelation -- it's just too crazy to get through)

A couple of years later, I decided to read the Koran. All sorts of Christians were telling me it was oh-so-violent and women-hating, and so I wanted to see for myself. And... I was shocked at how far, far less violent it is than the Bible. It is far from woman-hating, as the Bible is. In fact, it does, quite often, lay out the rights of women -- something the Bible never does. "There are at least 30 verses in the Koran that support equality between women and men and that refer to women's rights in various aspects of life." (reference). Further research showed that Islamic cultures that are anti-women base their beliefs on Hadith, an oral tradition of quotes attributed to the Prophet Muhammad but that are in wide dispute as to which are authentic, on ideas they think are in the Koran but aren't (a lot like Christians who think Jesus commented on homosexuals -- which he never did), and on cultural practices that preceded Islam. While I'm still no fan of the religion (any religion), it's a shame that militants are taking over a religion whose basis for belief is actually far more peace-promoting than the Bible.

In short, Christians certainly have plenty of Biblical basis to beat their wives, rape women, keep their wives and daughters hidden at home, beat their children, and kill whomever they deem as a non-Believer. To have these same Christians claim the Koran is violent shows a jaw-dropping duplicity. By all means, condemn violence and justifications for such -- but condemn ALL justifications for such. Condemn the 911 hijackers -- and the men who blew up clinics and shot doctors in Christ's name. And if you want to say that And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children. (Hosea 9:16 NLT) shouldn't be taken literally, fine -- but you have to say the same for the Koran. If you want to claim that when Paul says oh-so-clearly in 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 that women should be silent in church that, really, he's just saying women only have to be silent when tongues or prophecy is happening, then you ALSO have to acknowledge that the Koran is ALSO open to interpretation.